A most controversed anti-terrorism measure is the removal of French nationality for terrorists with dual nationality who were born French. What do you think of this measure ?
To properly answer that, you need to put the problem back in its context (what already exists ? Why is it an issue ? etc), to do a comparison with other countries, to give your opinion of course, and maybe to also mention other measures. Since this all takes quite a bit of research, try not doing all of it by yourself : someone does some researche for France, someone else for the USA, estc...
Since 13th November attacks' in Paris by terrorists, politicians are focus on terrorism. By that, some measures are planned to prevent action from jihadist people. One of them is the nationality removal which means to suppress French nationality at people who go to do the jihad. So, what is my opinion about this ?
To begin with, a person can have the French nationality by several manners: by the right of birthplace, the right of blood, by mariage or naturalisation. This measures of nationality removal concerns only the right of birthplace because if the governement suppress the French nationality at somebody, this people will have histoire other nationality.This fact is important because nobody can be stateless, it is forbidden by the law.
More than a month after Paris' attack, president Hollande has lately announced that he would instaure the forfeiture of French nationality for terrorits. Many politicians, from all sides claimed that this measure was anti constitutional. So what do I think ?
First of all, I deem that this announcement must be taken in its proper context : France is shocked, France is traumatized and we have been living in emergency state for more than a month today : borders are (supposed to be) controlled, police can arrest suspects without a warrant,... so Constitution and democratic principles can be, and have already been bypassed.
I assume that nothing can prevent the government from protecting its citizens. However, security must prevail over liberty in such a terrorist context but to a certain extent : citizen's security cannot be guarantee without trading off one of the founding principles of Western democracies : freedom. Thus, legislation is urgently needed to control law enforcement and fend off abuse and misuse of power. But in this case, I think that there is no abuse of judicial power because people who are planning to commit a terrorist strike in their native country, in the country they have been living in for their whole life don't deserve to have the nationality (knowing that they have another passeport).
However, I don't know if this measure will be totally useful. In fact, it only applies to terrorists who haven't committed the attack they are planning yet. So, before this measure, government must enforce security and terrorists' surveillance (in airports, on the internet, at the borders,...). Therefore, "would-be muslim radicals" that IS is trying to recruit will maybe question their motivations and be scared to act. In fact, French nationality offers a lot of privileges that only really motivated terrorists (which unfortunately means more and more people) would be ready to give up, because it is one of the most equal social democracy in the world.
In a nutshell, I think that this measure can be useful. It should have been set up before (when Mohammed Merah savagely killed a soldier and many young children (at that time, people believed that they were out of danger because they though only the army or the jews were targeted!)) so maybe Charlie Hebdo and the 13th of November's attacks could have been prevented. As many presidents said from all over the world : "we are at war against terrorism" and in a war, everything has to be done to protect the citizens.
To come back to my essay and to the context, Francois Hollande declared the state of emergency and recently he decided to remove nationality. This measure is more a right opinion even extreme right than a left opinion. That's why, he is critisized by his party especially Manuel Valls and Christiane Taubira. I think we don't have to forget that the aim of the president and this measure is to protect France from terrorism and his nation. Of course, this measure is not enough because terrorists can pass whereever they want. I admit this action is a way to show that we are afraid of terrorism and IS will certainly be happy by this measure which create rupture,conflicts and debates in France especially in the political parties. This measure was proposed first by National Front, so extreme right said that they win an ideological victory after they heard the decision of Mr Hollande. Of course, it was during Vichy regim when they were many nationality removals against jews. But, we don't have to make a comparison because we must think the context and this measure is totally différent than before: the governement wants to protect us and there is no antisemitism at all. We must focus on the security of the inhabitants and not the politic of this measure. So, I think this measure is a good beginning to prevent the terrorism.
Well, I think that the idea is not to scare terrorists (everybody in this political debate knows it won't), but rather to dishonour them, for our own minds. For example, if you think your neighbour is a terrible person, and decide that you won't talk to him anymore, he probably won't care, you'll do it because, anyway, you don't want to have a conversation with him. So I would say that I am in favour of this measure.
However, I recently saw that we could rather decide to bring back national indignity, which deprives you of many social rights, without taking nationality back. I don't know if it would be better.
Since the 13th of November, many measures were taken to protect our country and prevent djihadist attacks. François Hollande also decided to remove French nationality for terrorists and people who do (or did) the djihad. So what is my opinion about this measure ? Did other countries take such measures ?
Let's talk about this law : I disagree for a few reasons. Firstly, I agree with Clara : a stateless person is forbidden by the law and many people who go to do the djihad have only (at first, then they can ask the nationality of the country where they stay) the French nationality. Secondly, if someone has an other nationality, people can use false passports (Daesh has many money, so it's ''esay'' to have one) to pass French borders. Thirdly, people doing terrorists acts or doing the djihad don't mind if their French nationality is removed or not, because they don't want to come back (or if they want it, they will be killed). In a nutshell : I think this measure is unuseful. Even if this law had been set up before, many attacks would have take place anyway. A good exemple is the terrorist who passed easily to Belgium with false papers after Paris' attacks, whereas people and controlers knew his face.
Lastly, I will talk about Germany. Like François Hollande, Angela Merkel decided to change something about identity, but this law is less radical : persons suspected to travel to go to participate to the djihad have to change their ''classical'' identity cards for a special one, mentionning they can't travel (because we need only the identity card to travel in Europe and to Turkey). Also, they can't use their passports. I think this measure is more useful than in France, but it won't prevent attacks from people inside the country, who can follow instructions from terrorists, because of internet.
To conclude, more and more measures are taken in European countries, to prevent terrorism and to protect countries. However, in my opinion, this laws are not always really useful, like in France where two big attacks took place, whereas many measures for security were taken before.
As soon as November 16th, three days after the awful Paris attacks, President Hollande made a speech in Versailles. He wanted to show himself as strong and uncompromising, and he made the controversial proposal to strip citizenship from bi-nationals convicted of terrorism. France mourns but France must fight terrorism, so would it be a fair decree if the Constitution is modified, or would it be an unequal treatment of those who become French compared with those who are born French? Is it discriminatory?
To start with, how can we be French? First, by birth on the soil, then by descent, by naturalisation, by registration and by adoption. There are 3.3 million people with a second nationality living in France.
The current law says that only those who have been naturalized less than 10 years before a convicted crime can be stripped of their French nationality. President Hollande is seeking to extend this to all dual-nationals citizens convicted of terrorism, including those who were born French. The Constitutional Council which is made up of 12 members : "the wise", says that the fight against terrorism justifies the removal of French nationality. Approval of the decree requires a three-fifths majority of both houses of parliament, and so will need the support of the right which is in favour of the amendment.
I know that all citizens should be equal and free from distinctions of race, class or religion - this is the foundation stone of the Republic- but if terrorists attack the nation to which they belong, they expose themselves and they reject their own nation, so why not deprive them of their nationality if they are convicted of a crime constituting an act of terrorism. I don't know if this measure can have practical effects, I don't know if it can be dissuading, but anyone, French, bi-nationals or aliens who attack France must be punished. So, why not try it ?
I would eventually say that men were born free and equal in rights, we have rights but we also have duties and our first duty is to love and help others and ISIS terrorists do not love their neighbours.
First of all i would like to talk about the world context . We actually are in a dark atmosphere because of what happened in the world : terrorism attack in Paris last 13th November or even terrorism attack in Kenya college . I believe that the removal of French nationality for terrorist is not the solution since it will only "punish" terrorist for they act . However it will not stop those attack .. Because terrorist don't are about nationality or even their life since they kill themselves . Nevertheless i believe that there is no solution right now . We just need to don' be afraid , and love each others as much as possible !
After the attacks in Paris, in January 2015 and the 13 November 2015, François Hollande, the French president, decided to seize French Nationality to terrorist. Some politicians disagree with this idea, on the contrary to 80% of french people who followed this idea. I will give my opinion about this idea.
Firstly we have to now, that to be french, to have the french nationality, we can have it by birth, children who where born in France and have at least one parent who were born in France is automatically french. Than you can add the french nationality by naturalization -after five years habitual and continuous residence in France-, but also by descent or adoption.
Secondly, I don't really think this measure is enough to protect France of terrorism, because it will be apply to terrorist who haven't committed a crime yet, and before this, we should enforce all the public place but also borders, website, entrance and exit, and of course supervise people who are in the "fiche S". Anyway, In my opinion some terrorists don't mind if their nationality will be removed or not, because they can do fake passport, or false paper, as much as they want (for the terrorists it's really easy, because Daesh has a lot of money).
To conclude, for me, all is great to fight against terrorism and protect citizens but some of them are not really useful, as we can see laws in France were taken before and it still have big attacks. And today terrorism is a big problem in the world and it's really hard to fight against this, but we have to find more and more solutions.
The European Comission has issued a list of measures it believes would strengthen the EU's response to radicalisation and violent extremism. Officially, it is illegal. Nevertheless, several EU member states, including the UK, Austria, France and the Netherlands, are currently debating whether to do so. What do we do? Well, I think that we should ensure that we carry out due process. We actually prosecute them within our nation State. I don't accept that it is the right we make them stateless by taking away either their passeport or, indeed remove their nationality. We should make sure they are returned and that they face criminal proceedings. MBARGA FELICITE.
The European Comission has issued a lot of measures it believes would strengthen the EU's response to radicalisation and violent extremism. None of this measures involve revoking citizenship ( which would be illegal under international law if it led to an individual becoming stateless). Nevertheless, several EU member States, including the UK, Austria, France, and the Netherlands, have either already enacted laws to remove the citizenship of dual nationals convicted of terror offences, or else are currently debating wHether to do so. What do we do? Well i think that ensure that we carry out due to process. We actually prosecute them within our nation state. I don't accept that it is right we make them stateless by taking away their passport or by taking away their nationality. What we should do is make sure they are returned and that they face criminal proceedings appropriate. MBARGA FELICITE 1L1.
If I'm correct, taking the Freanch nationality away from them wouldn't make them stateless, since it would only concern people with two nationalities (they would still have the other one). I'd also like to point out that they would still be condamned to prison in France, that's one of the reasons this measure is an issue, since that would punish them twice for the same crime ("double peine" in French). I assume the nationality removal would be applied after they finished their prison term. That's only for France, though, I don't know the situation in the other countries you mentionned. Do you have more infos ?
I posses dual nationality, French and English so it can be worrying that France is willing to take away French nationality from everyone that also has the nationality of a country from which some citizens are radical. I understand why it has been done but I think that it's too extreme. One should be given the choice too abandon one nationality or the other. Also, France is not at war with that country so taking away French nationality from everyone from there is not justified, they are not all terrorists. Plus that will not stop terrorists as they can still come in easily through another EU country.
France's president François Hollande pledged to aggressively tackle the problem of homegrown terrorism, including making it easier to revoke people's citizenship, with a set of far-reaching proposals. In fact, he said: "The removal of the nationality must not have as a result to render someone stateless. But we must be able to remove someone's French nationality if they have been convicted for an attack against the fundamental interests of the nation or terrorists attacks. So what do I think of this measure? To begin with, President François Hollande's call for convicted French-born terrorists to lose their citizenship if they have a second nationality has triggered uproar among those who see him adopting right-wing ideas that recall dark moments in France's history. In fact, the Vichy regime, which collaborated with the Nazis in the 1940's, stripped thousands of Jews and foreigners of French citizenship during World War II. Ever since the French Revolution, the right of the soil has been a fundamental principle, giving everyone born in the country the right to citizenship. I think the measure has little chance of deterring jihadists who are often willing to give up their lives, let alone their passports. And it could encourage the idea that dual nationals are more of a threat than other citizens (a particular problem in a country that has struggled to integrate immigrants). The Constitution is a text that is written to unify the people and this does the opposite. People know that reinforcing the cohesion of the nation is, in the long term, the only way to defeat terrorism, and this proposal creates an immediate division in the country. Moreover, FN leader Marine Le Pen thinks this measure was a direct result of her party's record tally in recent polls. In fact, she said : "Removal of nationality: the first effect of the 6.8 million votes for the National Front in regional elections." To conclude, I don't think this measure will have a real impact on the problem of terrorism. Indeed, terrorists have so much tools to come in our territory and we probably don't know them all yet.
Since the 13th of November, President François Hollande has taken measures to fight against the djihadist attacks : he decided to remove to remove the French nationality for terrorists with dual nationality who were born in France. So, what is my opinion about this measure ?
I disagree with this measure for several reason : First of all, many people who go to do the djihad have only the French nationality, and the President couldn't remove them the nationality because someone can't be stateless.
Seconldy, there is also the problem of the false identity : terrorists can have a false identity and come back in France despite the security in airports or at the border, like for example the terrorists who entered in France by Belgium with false papers and identities.
Then, if the djihadists want to attack, it's not the « threat » to remove the French nationality who will retain them.
To conclude, in my opinion, this measure is not really useful but it's a good beginning to prevent the terrorism.
After terrible year where the terrorism has hit hard France. The president has decided to set up anti terrorist measures.One the me measure is the nationality removal . Two terrorist attack in one year which cost the life 142 people . So the President had to act and quickly . What this law will change ?
To begin with . we can say that this law is a way to affirm his power and especially to appease public opinion . This law means that a french citizen who is guilty of terroist act can removed of his he have an other nationality . So waht will change, not lot , it is just a symbolic measures . This will not prevent or stop terrorsit attacks , what France citizens want is a way to prevent this attacks . This symbolic law is bad idea is not the fact to take a paper from a terrorist which change the fact the terrorist grow up in France ,went to school in France , work in France . This law is a way to shirk responsibility for the Holande administration and others politicians . Afterwards , this law will create a new status between french citizens . In fact we will have french citizen by birth , and the the naturalized and between this both status the removal one's . Then this law rimind of the nationality removal of Jewish in France during world war II and when we know why they was removed to be send to camps .
To conclude we can say that this law will not change the terrorist problem in France , it's just a symbolic law .This law is not useful . this law is a mistake which only help to increase inequality between french .
The removal of French nationality exists since 1848 with the abolition of slavery, however after many terorist attacks who occurred in 2015 and especially the one of the 13 November, The removal of French nationality was a high media profile because after this event, she was discount to the order by François Hollande in some cases namely « a crime or a offence who damage to fundamental interests of the nation, for actions in aid of unknow country and to the detriment of the France ( spying, high treason ) and for terrorism too. So we going to see how this measure is it a solution against the attack of the nation or only a way of pressure ?
This restriction have to come to in this time of crisis and is approve by a majority of french people because " nobody understand that when we take weapons against the France, when we betray its country, we can keept the nationality" ,so this is instal for highlight the France, in order she can keep a minimum of dignity, so we can consider that like a homage to the France.
However I think that this reform is rather setting up in the symbolic plane that in the political because she concerns persons with dual nacionality and not for all terrorists, therefore they are not consider in the same manner because if we remove the nationality of a normal citizen he become stateless ( what is opposite in the universal declaration of human and citizen laws ) while the binational keept always a nationality but they can't take advantage of it because it is sair that they are sentenced. More I think this is not a brake for the attack.
As the conclusion we could say isn't reals resolutions have to be install for stop this problem so this reform is more symbolic that utilitarian so i find it isn't fundamental.
After the terrorist attack of 13rd of November, President François Hollande decided to remove French nationality for people who threat or attack the security of our country. As lots of people, I don't really think this law change our futur. Indeed terrorists don't care about that : they follow their ideology, no matter consequences. However I think it's a good measure. Politicians know that it will not change our story and it's not a law to protect France but they would like to give a symbolic definition of a better place where we can live in peace thanks to mutual respect. They only want to describe a french citizen who is concerned and respect key values. Moreover this law doesn't look like Jewish law in the second world war. Context is really different, and the aim is absolutely not the same. It's important to not confound two different systems. Then this law isn't apply to increase inequalities between French people, on the contrary it allow to regroup people thanks to solidarity. Indeed in this terrible context people must share their emotions and convey their opinions. To conclude we must remember that we aren't different by our religion, ideology or even skin color but by our values.
Regarding the removal of French nationality, I think we just try to postpone a present problem or delegate our responsibility to another country. If France has the opportunity to conduct such actions, I do not see why other countries could not do the same. That mean that the terrorist would have no nationality. So rather than trying to stop them, we prefer to leave them to the margins of society to be sure "not being responsible". I think the government wants to show that it is not ineffective against the térorisme, to reassure the population and escape the critic. But it seems to me that this is not the right solution because instead of solving a problem and to help people who have been conditioned, we prefer to exclude these people from the community.
I think it's a good measure, but the one for a start. Even if he was born on French soil, committing such an act in our country does not make him a French citizen anymore. Nevertheless, I think that the terrorist doesn't care if he has or not the French nationality, he just follows his terrorist ideologies and is not afraid to die for it, so even less a nationality. So we should put in place much more radical and effective measures to protect French citizens from these threats.
To properly answer that, you need to put the problem back in its context (what already exists ? Why is it an issue ? etc), to do a comparison with other countries, to give your opinion of course, and maybe to also mention other measures.
ReplyDeleteSince this all takes quite a bit of research, try not doing all of it by yourself : someone does some researche for France, someone else for the USA, estc...
Since 13th November attacks' in Paris by terrorists, politicians are focus on terrorism. By that, some measures are planned to prevent action from jihadist people. One of them is the nationality removal which means to suppress French nationality at people who go to do the jihad. So, what is my opinion about this ?
ReplyDeleteTo begin with, a person can have the French nationality by several manners: by the right of birthplace, the right of blood, by mariage or naturalisation. This measures of nationality removal concerns only the right of birthplace because if the governement suppress the French nationality at somebody, this people will have histoire other nationality.This fact is important because nobody can be stateless, it is forbidden by the law.
More than a month after Paris' attack, president Hollande has lately announced that he would instaure the forfeiture of French nationality for terrorits. Many politicians, from all sides claimed that this measure was anti constitutional. So what do I think ?
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, I deem that this announcement must be taken in its proper context : France is shocked, France is traumatized and we have been living in emergency state for more than a month today : borders are (supposed to be) controlled, police can arrest suspects without a warrant,... so Constitution and democratic principles can be, and have already been bypassed.
I assume that nothing can prevent the government from protecting its citizens. However, security must prevail over liberty in such a terrorist context but to a certain extent : citizen's security cannot be guarantee without trading off one of the founding principles of Western democracies : freedom. Thus, legislation is urgently needed to control law enforcement and fend off abuse and misuse of power. But in this case, I think that there is no abuse of judicial power because people who are planning to commit a terrorist strike in their native country, in the country they have been living in for their whole life don't deserve to have the nationality (knowing that they have another passeport).
However, I don't know if this measure will be totally useful. In fact, it only applies to terrorists who haven't committed the attack they are planning yet. So, before this measure, government must enforce security and terrorists' surveillance (in airports, on the internet, at the borders,...). Therefore, "would-be muslim radicals" that IS is trying to recruit will maybe question their motivations and be scared to act. In fact, French nationality offers a lot of privileges that only really motivated terrorists (which unfortunately means more and more people) would be ready to give up, because it is one of the most equal social democracy in the world.
In a nutshell, I think that this measure can be useful. It should have been set up before (when Mohammed Merah savagely killed a soldier and many young children (at that time, people believed that they were out of danger because they though only the army or the jews were targeted!)) so maybe Charlie Hebdo and the 13th of November's attacks could have been prevented. As many presidents said from all over the world : "we are at war against terrorism" and in a war, everything has to be done to protect the citizens.
To come back to my essay and to the context, Francois Hollande declared the state of emergency and recently he decided to remove nationality. This measure is more a right opinion even extreme right than a left opinion. That's why, he is critisized by his party especially Manuel Valls and Christiane Taubira. I think we don't have to forget that the aim of the president and this measure is to protect France from terrorism and his nation. Of course, this measure is not enough because terrorists can pass whereever they want. I admit this action is a way to show that we are afraid of terrorism and IS will certainly be happy by this measure which create rupture,conflicts and debates in France especially in the political parties. This measure was proposed first by National Front, so extreme right said that they win an ideological victory after they heard the decision of Mr Hollande. Of course, it was during Vichy regim when they were many nationality removals against jews. But, we don't have to make a comparison because we must think the context and this measure is totally différent than before: the governement wants to protect us and there is no antisemitism at all. We must focus on the security of the inhabitants and not the politic of this measure. So, I think this measure is a good beginning to prevent the terrorism.
ReplyDeleteAnd what about you Lucas ? Do you think this measure is useful ?
ReplyDeleteWell, I think that the idea is not to scare terrorists (everybody in this political debate knows it won't), but rather to dishonour them, for our own minds.
DeleteFor example, if you think your neighbour is a terrible person, and decide that you won't talk to him anymore, he probably won't care, you'll do it because, anyway, you don't want to have a conversation with him.
So I would say that I am in favour of this measure.
However, I recently saw that we could rather decide to bring back national indignity, which deprives you of many social rights, without taking nationality back. I don't know if it would be better.
Since the 13th of November, many measures were taken to protect our country and prevent djihadist attacks. François Hollande also decided to remove French nationality for terrorists and people who do (or did) the djihad. So what is my opinion about this measure ? Did other countries take such measures ?
ReplyDeleteLet's talk about this law : I disagree for a few reasons. Firstly, I agree with Clara : a stateless person is forbidden by the law and many people who go to do the djihad have only (at first, then they can ask the nationality of the country where they stay) the French nationality.
Secondly, if someone has an other nationality, people can use false passports (Daesh has many money, so it's ''esay'' to have one) to pass French borders.
Thirdly, people doing terrorists acts or doing the djihad don't mind if their French nationality is removed or not, because they don't want to come back (or if they want it, they will be killed).
In a nutshell : I think this measure is unuseful. Even if this law had been set up before, many attacks would have take place anyway. A good exemple is the terrorist who passed easily to Belgium with false papers after Paris' attacks, whereas people and controlers knew his face.
Lastly, I will talk about Germany. Like François Hollande, Angela Merkel decided to change something about identity, but this law is less radical : persons suspected to travel to go to participate to the djihad have to change their ''classical'' identity cards for a special one, mentionning they can't travel (because we need only the identity card to travel in Europe and to Turkey). Also, they can't use their passports. I think this measure is more useful than in France, but it won't prevent attacks from people inside the country, who can follow instructions from terrorists, because of internet.
To conclude, more and more measures are taken in European countries, to prevent terrorism and to protect countries. However, in my opinion, this laws are not always really useful, like in France where two big attacks took place, whereas many measures for security were taken before.
As soon as November 16th, three days after the awful Paris attacks, President Hollande made a speech in Versailles. He wanted to show himself as strong and uncompromising, and he made the controversial proposal to strip citizenship from bi-nationals convicted of terrorism. France mourns but France must fight terrorism, so would it be a fair decree if the Constitution is modified, or would it be an unequal treatment of those who become French compared with those who are born French? Is it discriminatory?
ReplyDeleteTo start with, how can we be French? First, by birth on the soil, then by descent, by naturalisation, by registration and by adoption. There are 3.3 million people with a second nationality living in France.
The current law says that only those who have been naturalized less than 10 years before a convicted crime can be stripped of their French nationality. President Hollande is seeking to extend this to all dual-nationals citizens convicted of terrorism, including those who were born French. The Constitutional Council which is made up of 12 members : "the wise", says that the fight against terrorism justifies the removal of French nationality. Approval of the decree requires a three-fifths majority of both houses of parliament, and so will need the support of the right which is in favour of the amendment.
I know that all citizens should be equal and free from distinctions of race, class or religion - this is the foundation stone of the Republic- but if terrorists attack the nation to which they belong, they expose themselves and they reject their own nation, so why not deprive them of their nationality if they are convicted of a crime constituting an act of terrorism. I don't know if this measure can have practical effects, I don't know if it can be dissuading, but anyone, French, bi-nationals or aliens who attack France must be punished. So, why not try it ?
I would eventually say that men were born free and equal in rights, we have rights but we also have duties and our first duty is to love and help others and ISIS terrorists do not love their neighbours.
May the force be with us !
First of all i would like to talk about the world context . We actually are in a dark atmosphere because of what happened in the world : terrorism attack in Paris last 13th November or even terrorism attack in Kenya college . I believe that the removal of French nationality for terrorist is not the solution since it will only "punish" terrorist for they act . However it will not stop those attack .. Because terrorist don't are about nationality or even their life since they kill themselves . Nevertheless i believe that there is no solution right now . We just need to don' be afraid , and love each others as much as possible !
ReplyDeleteAfter the attacks in Paris, in January 2015 and the 13 November 2015, François Hollande, the French president, decided to seize French Nationality to terrorist. Some politicians disagree with this idea, on the contrary to 80% of french people who followed this idea. I will give my opinion about this idea.
ReplyDeleteFirstly we have to now, that to be french, to have the french nationality, we can have it by birth, children who where born in France and have at least one parent who were born in France is automatically french. Than you can add the french nationality by naturalization -after five years habitual and continuous residence in France-, but also by descent or adoption.
Secondly, I don't really think this measure is enough to protect France of terrorism, because it will be apply to terrorist who haven't committed a crime yet, and before this, we should enforce all the public place but also borders, website, entrance and exit, and of course supervise people who are in the "fiche S". Anyway, In my opinion some terrorists don't mind if their nationality will be removed or not, because they can do fake passport, or false paper, as much as they want (for the terrorists it's really easy, because Daesh has a lot of money).
To conclude, for me, all is great to fight against terrorism and protect citizens but some of them are not really useful, as we can see laws in France were taken before and it still have big attacks. And today terrorism is a big problem in the world and it's really hard to fight against this, but we have to find more and more solutions.
The European Comission has issued a list of measures it believes would strengthen the EU's response to radicalisation and violent extremism. Officially, it is illegal. Nevertheless, several EU member states, including the UK, Austria, France and the Netherlands, are currently debating whether to do so.
DeleteWhat do we do? Well, I think that we should ensure that we carry out due process. We actually prosecute them within our nation State. I don't accept that it is the right we make them stateless by taking away either their passeport or, indeed remove their nationality. We should make sure they are returned and that they face criminal proceedings.
MBARGA FELICITE.
The European Comission has issued a lot of measures it believes would strengthen the EU's response to radicalisation and violent extremism. None of this measures involve revoking citizenship ( which would be illegal under international law if it led to an individual becoming stateless). Nevertheless, several EU member States, including the UK, Austria, France, and the Netherlands, have either already enacted laws to remove the citizenship of dual nationals convicted of terror offences, or else are currently debating wHether to do so.
ReplyDeleteWhat do we do? Well i think that ensure that we carry out due to process. We actually prosecute them within our nation state. I don't accept that it is right we make them stateless by taking away their passport or by taking away their nationality. What we should do is make sure they are returned and that they face criminal proceedings appropriate.
MBARGA FELICITE 1L1.
If I'm correct, taking the Freanch nationality away from them wouldn't make them stateless, since it would only concern people with two nationalities (they would still have the other one).
DeleteI'd also like to point out that they would still be condamned to prison in France, that's one of the reasons this measure is an issue, since that would punish them twice for the same crime ("double peine" in French). I assume the nationality removal would be applied after they finished their prison term.
That's only for France, though, I don't know the situation in the other countries you mentionned. Do you have more infos ?
I posses dual nationality, French and English so it can be worrying that France is willing to take away French nationality from everyone that also has the nationality of a country from which some citizens are radical.
ReplyDeleteI understand why it has been done but I think that it's too extreme. One should be given the choice too abandon one nationality or the other. Also, France is not at war with that country so taking away French nationality from everyone from there is not justified, they are not all terrorists. Plus that will not stop terrorists as they can still come in easily through another EU country.
As I understand it, it would only concern convicted terrorists ...
DeleteFrance's president François Hollande pledged to aggressively tackle the problem of homegrown terrorism, including making it easier to revoke people's citizenship, with a set of far-reaching proposals. In fact, he said: "The removal of the nationality must not have as a result to render someone stateless. But we must be able to remove someone's French nationality if they have been convicted for an attack against the fundamental interests of the nation or terrorists attacks. So what do I think of this measure?
ReplyDeleteTo begin with, President François Hollande's call for convicted French-born terrorists to lose their citizenship if they have a second nationality has triggered uproar among those who see him adopting right-wing ideas that recall dark moments in France's history. In fact, the Vichy regime, which collaborated with the Nazis in the 1940's, stripped thousands of Jews and foreigners of French citizenship during World War II.
Ever since the French Revolution, the right of the soil has been a fundamental principle, giving everyone born in the country the right to citizenship.
I think the measure has little chance of deterring jihadists who are often willing to give up their lives, let alone their passports. And it could encourage the idea that dual nationals are more of a threat than other citizens (a particular problem in a country that has struggled to integrate immigrants).
The Constitution is a text that is written to unify the people and this does the opposite. People know that reinforcing the cohesion of the nation is, in the long term, the only way to defeat terrorism, and this proposal creates an immediate division in the country.
Moreover, FN leader Marine Le Pen thinks this measure was a direct result of her party's record tally in recent polls. In fact, she said : "Removal of nationality: the first effect of the 6.8 million votes for the National Front in regional elections."
To conclude, I don't think this measure will have a real impact on the problem of terrorism. Indeed, terrorists have so much tools to come in our territory and we probably don't know them all yet.
Since the 13th of November, President François Hollande has taken measures to fight against the djihadist attacks : he decided to remove to remove the French nationality for terrorists with dual nationality who were born in France. So, what is my opinion about this measure ?
ReplyDeleteI disagree with this measure for several reason :
First of all, many people who go to do the djihad have only the French nationality, and the President couldn't remove them the nationality because someone can't be stateless.
Seconldy, there is also the problem of the false identity : terrorists can have a false identity and come back in France despite the security in airports or at the border, like for example the terrorists who entered in France by Belgium with false papers and identities.
Then, if the djihadists want to attack, it's not the « threat » to remove the French nationality who will retain them.
To conclude, in my opinion, this measure is not really useful but it's a good beginning to prevent the terrorism.
After terrible year where the terrorism has hit hard France. The president has decided to set up anti terrorist measures.One the me measure is the nationality removal . Two terrorist attack in one year which cost the life 142 people . So the President had to act and quickly . What this law will change ?
ReplyDeleteTo begin with . we can say that this law is a way to affirm his power and especially to appease public opinion . This law means that a french citizen who is guilty of terroist act can removed of his he have an other nationality . So waht will change, not lot , it is just a symbolic measures . This will not prevent or stop terrorsit attacks , what France citizens want is a way to prevent this attacks . This symbolic law is bad idea is not the fact to take a paper from a terrorist which change the fact the terrorist grow up in France ,went to school in France , work in France . This law is
a way to shirk responsibility for the Holande administration and others politicians .
Afterwards , this law will create a new status between french citizens . In fact we will have french citizen by birth , and the the naturalized and between this both status the removal one's . Then this law rimind of the nationality removal of Jewish in France during world war II and when we know why they was removed to be send to camps .
To conclude we can say that this law will not change the terrorist problem in France , it's just a symbolic law .This law is not useful . this law is a mistake which only help to increase inequality between french .
Nehal Abderrezak TL2
The removal of French nationality exists since 1848 with the abolition of slavery, however after many terorist attacks who occurred in 2015 and especially the one of the 13 November, The removal of French nationality was a high media profile because after this event, she was discount to the order by François Hollande in some cases namely « a crime or a offence who damage to fundamental interests of the nation, for actions in aid of unknow country and to the detriment of the France ( spying, high treason ) and for terrorism too. So we going to see how this measure is it a solution against the attack of the nation or only a way of pressure ?
DeleteThis restriction have to come to in this time of crisis and is approve by a majority of french people because " nobody understand that when we take weapons against the France, when we betray its country, we can keept the nationality" ,so this is instal for highlight the France, in order she can keep a minimum of dignity, so we can consider that like a homage to the France.
However I think that this reform is rather setting up in the symbolic plane that in the political because she concerns persons with dual nacionality and not for all terrorists, therefore they are not consider in the same manner because if we remove the nationality of a normal citizen he become stateless ( what is opposite in the universal declaration of human and citizen laws ) while the binational keept always a nationality but they can't take advantage of it because it is sair that they are sentenced. More I think this is not a brake for the attack.
As the conclusion we could say isn't reals resolutions have to be install for stop this problem so this reform is more symbolic that utilitarian so i find it isn't
fundamental.
BARBERO Canelle TL2
After the terrorist attack of 13rd of November, President François Hollande decided to remove French nationality for people who threat or attack the security of our country. As lots of people, I don't really think this law change our futur. Indeed terrorists don't care about that : they follow their ideology, no
ReplyDeletematter consequences. However I think it's a good measure. Politicians know that it will not change our story and it's not a law to protect France but they would like to give a symbolic definition of a better place where we can live in peace thanks to mutual respect. They only want to describe a french citizen who is concerned and respect key values. Moreover this law doesn't look like Jewish law in the second world war. Context is really different, and the aim is absolutely not the same. It's important to not confound two different systems. Then this law isn't apply to increase inequalities between French people, on the contrary it allow to regroup people thanks to solidarity. Indeed in this terrible context people must share their emotions and convey their opinions.
To conclude we must remember that we aren't different by our religion, ideology or even skin color but by our values.
Regarding the removal of French nationality, I think we just try to postpone a present problem or delegate our responsibility to another country. If France has the opportunity to conduct such actions, I do not see why other countries could not do the same. That mean that the terrorist would have no nationality. So rather than trying to stop them, we prefer to leave them to the margins of society to be sure "not being responsible". I think the government wants to show that it is not ineffective against the térorisme, to reassure the population and escape the critic. But it seems to me that this is not the right solution because instead of solving a problem and to help people who have been conditioned, we prefer to exclude these people from the community.
ReplyDeleteI think it's a good measure, but the one for a start. Even if he was born on French soil, committing such an act in our country does not make him a French citizen anymore. Nevertheless, I think that the terrorist doesn't care if he has or not the French nationality, he just follows his terrorist ideologies and is not afraid to die for it, so even less a nationality. So we should put in place much more radical and effective measures to protect French citizens from these threats.
ReplyDelete